Tony gave me some CD's to listen to the other day. They were of some guy named Patrick Madrid giving a talk. At one point he was talking about hell. I have a question. What is hell? Is it a burning abyss? Is it a state of mind? Who goes there? For that matter...who goes to heaven? I don't think saying "the sinner's prayer" is what does it for you. I also don't think being baptized is what does it for you. I think that your life needs to change to portray Christ. Patrick Madrid mentioned something about that passage in Matthew 25 where it says this:
But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
32"All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
33and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
34"Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
38'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
39'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40"The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you,to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
41"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
44"Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
45"Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
but then, in Ephesians 3: 8-9, it says by grace are you saved, not of works lest any man should boast.
What does that mean? Do you think with grace will come good works? Or where is it where it says faith without works is dead? So if you have good faith, then good works will come? So really, I remember the priest asking me all kinds of questions about where you get Jesus, well where is it?
Ok...I have strayed a little from the heaven and hell topic...I am good at that. I used to think I had everything figured out. I know I don't at all. What are your thoughts on heaven and hell? I have to go now...I will write more about this later...
5 comments:
I thank God so much for giving us the Church, the body of Christ, with Christ as the head. For that reason I don't have to rack my brain with frustration and confusion. I just look to Christ's bride and defer judgement to her. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't educate myself but it does mean that I have a moral compass to look towards! God is good. Praise Him in His infinte wisdom!
I think yes, with faith in the teachings of the Lord, grace, and goodwill comes good actions. The mind and body wither and fail, but it's the heart and soul that remain eternal. For some people that's all they have; like Timmy on South Park. He's a good kid with pure intentions in his heart, but he's a cripple, and he can't confess his sins; all he can say is, "TIMMY!" See my point?
But evil men can do good things to benefit themselves and bring themselves more power. Like Constantine for example; while he's not evil, he saved people just to try to get himself into heaven -- to be redeemed for his sin of suicide. Only when he did something out of love for someone else (self-sacrifice) did he find redemption for his sin.
So basically, if you truly care about others, then your actions will show it through sacrifice of some sort; feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc. It's got its instant gratification to it; I know I feel great when I give money to the poor or give something to Goodwill instead of throwing it out. I've got a lot of thought on this; I've thought on it a lot before now, but before I write my own blog on your comment board, I'll end here.
Oh, and the new look is cool, except there's no cracked out pornstar pics.
I'm not on record here or anything, but my experiences this summer have raised a lot of questions in my mind about the idea of hell and whether it's really necessary. That might seem somewhat relativistic, but then again, I'm actually pretty comfortable with being relative.
It just seems so superflous to have a place of eternal torment to cap off a life that might have been rather hellacious to begin with. I've counselled with lots of people who would not align themselfs with "christian" teachings, or with the dogmas of any organized religion. Many have lived morally mediocre lives, and haven't resolved to any particular expression of faith and piety. Yet what shall be my role to them? Tell them that they must repent on their deathbed to avoid the pangs of eternal damnation?! Or perhaps use them as an example to their families of the necessity of avoiding hellfire?
I should think NOT!
I'm not saying that Hell doesn't exist, and that there will not be people found wanting at the day of judgement. But I must say that I do find the concept of hell rather unnecessary. Just the idea that a person's failure to make the "right" decision in the few years they are here on earth will cause them to spend all of eternity in perpetual torment is simply rather sickening, and I can't help but question whether the perception of God evoked by these images is consistent with the God of Scripture, who is always, always, always, a God of second chances.
i would highly suggest buying "more ready than you realize" by brian mclaren. you may have it already. i need to reread it. it deals a lot with how to "evangelize" without evangelizing - i know you'll get what that means. but he addresses some of the heaven and hell issues, too, b/c people are inevitably going to ask you. it was very thought-process changing, as are most of his books.
okay, i need to pull josh away from sarah's CD and get some dinner!
Good works do not lead to salvation, salvation leads to good works. Or at least it should :) Fortunately for us here on earth, we dont have to judge anyone else's works as good or not. We can help and push people along towards 'good works' but even the smallest good work (see the widow and her mite) is the biggest to GOD while the biggest to us (the man who only gave some of his earnings from selling his field, instead of all like he'd said he would) end up being the Least to GOD.
As for heaven and hell. The end result of being 'saved' is to spend the 'other side' of eternity with GOD. Hell is simply 'seperation from GOD for eternity' Whatever manifestation that takes, whether it's a burning abys or a state of mind is something we'll just have to find out. Sometimes when things are written, they're written in a way to portray a 'feel' of something instead of a literal explenation. For instance, hell is refered to as a 'lake of fire.' Literally a lake of fire? like just a basin full of lava? Or does it mean it FEELS like a lake of fire, as in it's really really uncomforatably hot.
Good questions to ask God when we get there ;)
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